By KARINE VANN*
Hetq
Part I: Interview with an Karabakh Peacebuilder in Baku
The conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh does not end when one leaves the front-line. On the contrary, there is a potent and powerful media war surrounding us at all times, from the BBC to our Facebook feeds, and for many on either side of the conflict, barriers ranging from language to legislation impede access to independent sources on the ground.
Dissatisfied with the English-language coverage of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict of the last two months and sensing a worrying dearth of commentary from ethnic Azerbaijani specialists from both local and international publications, I recently decided to take it upon myself to reach out independently to Azeri peacebuilders to ask them what is happening on their side of the media warzone.
Motivated by my own fears about the possible outbreak of war between Armenia and Azerbaijan, I went into each conversation, not pointing fingers or making any territorial claims, but simply to get closer to the truth about what Azeris are feeling and experiencing in Azerbaijan and what their thoughts might be about the possibility of a peaceful resolution. The first person I reached out to was Avaz Hasanov, Director of the Humanitarian Research Public Union in Azerbaijan.
Hasanov is a veteran of peacebuilding in the Nagorno Karabakh conflict (if one can say such a thing). For years, he has written intensively on the conflict, working side-by-side both Armenians and the people of Karabakh to find common ground and participate in peacebuilding seminars and workshops. He is one of very few Azerbaijanis who can say they have voyaged to the disputed region since the devastating fighting of the nineties, which saw thousands displaced. His last visit to the conflict zone was in 2006 and his last trip to Armenia, as recent as 2014.
Having spent many years engaging in official initiatives, Hasanov is well-rehearsed in the diplomatic process. He deftly handles meetings with official representatives, whether it’s those from Armenian and Azerbaijani governments or the OSCE Minsk Group. Yet in the last two years, he says, he has lost all his projects. Recent government legislation has blockaded his and dozens of other NGOs’ ability to secure financing. Where he once had a staff of twenty, today, he has three. Where his organization once enjoyed a large office space, they now occupy a small room.
Discouraged by these developments, Hasanov is distraught about what this means for the possibility of a peaceful resolution between the two nations. No stranger to Armenian press (he has undertaken several interviews in the past), he kindly agreed to speak with me to provide answer some questions I had regarding public opinion and the media in Azerbaijan from a non-governmental representative.
Let’s get right into it. What, in your opinion, is required in order to reach a peaceful resolution to this conflict?
Yeah. [Laughs] I will try to find the words. I am not an optimist now. I was very optimistic a few years ago. I believed in the people of Armenia and Azerbaijan. I don’t think the solution of the conflict is dependent on moderators, on initiators, on officials. I think the solution of the conflict depends on the Azeri, Armenian, and the Karabakh people. I don’t know, I had many conversations with Azeris here and Armenians and Karabakhs, sometimes I tried a simulation game in University where I’m trying to present both sides’ opinions—what Armenians want, what Azeris want, what people in Karabakh want… And you know, I haven’t got a real concept about what we can get in the end. But I think it’s the issues of two nations. But my main idea is that I don’t agree with war. I’m against any military interference. We cannot solve the conflict with war—all of us will lose in the end. In any case, we will sit around the table and discuss the final solution, but I am sure Azeris and Armenians didn’t spend a lot of time trying to find a solution. We are waiting for moderators, waiting for mediators to decide for us.
Because, for whatever reason, we can’t seem to communicate with one another. People from both sides are not really conversing, it seems.
This is our big mistake. It’s been over two decades and I have never seen a real negotiation process. I’m not talking about between officials, but between regular people, Armenians and Azeris. And sometimes, I am looking to process what is happening and I wonder—why Armenians and Azeris, two nations with similar histories, similar cultures… cannot find a common language.
Literally.
Yeah. We face this situation now. How will Russia and how will the foreign mediators solve this conflict for us? Meanwhile, we are losing time and the opportunity to be able to decide on a solution for ourselves.
So, given the current situation, what can Armenians do to help–right now?
Really… I don’t know.
I know you mentioned that you aren’t an optimist anymore, but do you have any examples of a moments during one of your peace-building initiatives when you really saw some kind of progress? Maybe it was even something as small as a successful conversation between people?
Yeah, I have a lot! But unfortunately, many of my interviews and my articles about it are in Russian.
Speaking of language, would you say that English is starting to be a more popular language with young people in Azerbaijan
Yes, English is becoming more powerful, but basically we’re using Russian. It’s more popular than English, definitely for the middle-aged population. And English is more popular amongst the young generation. But the people who have good English in Azerbaijan, they have no interest in getting involved in the conflict. Young people don’t like to speak about the conflict, don’t like to be involved in the conflict. Only the middle-aged generation has interest.
Do you think it’s important for Armenian journalists to try and get in touch with Azeris and get their reactions on what is happening?
To be honest, sometimes I am looking to Armenian mass media. I have found many very good Armenian analysts.
You mean, in Armenian language?
No, I mean, in English and Russian. I know plenty of Armenian experts in Armenia. And sometimes, I see a similarity of our view, our position to peacebuilding process. And at this point, Armenia’s position and Armenia’s public opinion is so clear for me. But… it’s not clear for me what the Azeri position is, unfortunately. Sometimes we will say, “We will give Karabakh high status, a very high status.” But we don’t know what that means. No one really wants to discuss the elements of this “high status” or what that means. I saw very active Armenian journalists on issues in the Karabakh conflict. I saw how Armenian journalists would try to learn the position of Azeris and contact experts. But in Azerbaijan, you cannot know the position of the Armenian independentexperts. There are only 2 or 3 sites propagating any kind of opinions of Armenians.
But I have been following the media, and I haven’t really seen any popular Armenian media outlets use ethnic Azerbaijanis as primary sources.
But, OK, in the last three months, yes, it was not so popular. But, you can look to previous years. You can see that journalists were doing this kind of activity. We also had this joint website where Azeri and Armenian NGOs could collaborate.
Regarding the international coverage of the conflict, it seems to me that sources like Al Jazeera and BBC generally lack ethnically Azerbaijani panelists represented. Is this a misinformed assessment? Is it just that I only see Armenian panelists speaking because I have a primarily Armenian network propagating specific clips of the coverage? Or is this a general truth, something that you have noticed as well?
The first issue, why the Azeri perspective is not really clearly stated in international media… I think it’s because the Azeri public and Azeri experts are not so active in international media. They are not more active in shaping their opinion and views in the international coverage. From my view, I think this is the first mistake of Azeri experts. The second problem is that Azeri society is closed to international journalists. The government has made Azerbaijan totally dependent on government official announcements. I can count on one hand how many free media outlets we have in Azerbaijan. Third, we have very little access—physical access—to international journalists. Sometimes, international publications call for quotes from experts, but we do not have these experts living in Baku. When your branch or contact point does not live in Baku, you cannot really access what is actually going on. Azerbaijan’s government two or three years ago stopped cooperations with international media and we do not have any branch or representatives here, like CNN, BBC, Bloomberg, or other international media. And the last issue is that we are not so open to the international community. We have no independent analysts in Azerbaijan. I knew a few active experts, who has access to international media, international community, but we do not have a chance to get access.
Seeing as you teach in a university, I imagine you probably have pretty good insight into the reactions of young people to the conflict. How do you feel about these reactions? Are people thinking independently about the conflict, or just accepting the information the media disseminates?
Good question. Knowledge about the conflict amongst young people in general is not sufficient. They get their information only from social media and from the official media and television. Sure, all people know the main issues in the conflict. For all Azeris, Karabakh is Karabakh. They know we have this issue with Armenia and they know how they feel about it. But no one is thinking about how to solve this conflict. How can we find a solution? This is a big problem, not only with students. It’s a problem with 40% of the population. All alternative views you can find by searching the opinions of experts, not by searching the official media. It’s not just Azerbaijan’s society—it’s happening everywhere. But without the alternative views, you cannot imagine what the real situation in the conflict is. That’s the difference between Azerbaijan and other societies, is that finding the alternative sources is much more difficult. This is the main difficulty for us. They are not interested to read an article or do some research. This conflict is not the proiority of the young generation. I think it’s happening everywhere. All young generations are thinking about themselves, the first priority is developing themselves.
You, I’m sure, have been following international coverage? Are you satisfied with how international organizations are summarizing and presenting the situation to the general public?
Hm, I don’t know. I’m sure that Al Jazeera and CNN and BBC have only one goal when covering this conflict. They want to give objective information. And every nation wants to receive the result from them. I think for Al Jazeera and other international media, they have more opportunities to work in Armenia and Karabakh than in Azerbaijan. They have full access to press, mass media, experts, panelists, the community, sometimes to the line of contact, to the frontline. But it’s not the case here. And this is the fault of the Azeri government! I don’t see journalists from Al Jazeera and CNN in Baku because acquiring a visa is a huge problem for them. In this case, I cannot say. I am watching what is happening, I’m agreeing, but the main issue is how international media presents Azerbaijan. It omits the main issues. You know, journalists from Al Jazeera and CNN came to Azerbaijan through the ministry of foreign affairs. They visited the line of contact—the front line. And they met with people whose houses were damaged. Okay, it was the main reason of their visit to Azerbaijan. They didn’t meet with experts, they didn’t meet with journalists here. That’s a problem.
For those interested in seeking more articles and news that offers alternative narratives in English from people on the ground in Baku and Yerevan, the author recommends the media platform JAMNews. This website focuses on building media transparency in the Cacuasus and translates all of its articles into Armenian, Azeri, Georgian, Russian, and English.
*Karine Vann is a freelance writer, graphic designer, and activist based in Yerevan, originally from the Washington D.C. area. She is a musician by training and is passionate about the arts and the environment (in no particular order).